What is Peter Joseph’s “Zeitgeist” about?
What is the meaning of the “movie” zeitgeist (click on the image above and watch it)?
What is the meaning of showing the Bible as a big patchwork of ancient believes?
What is the meaning of showing Jesus as a good astronomer who probably didn’t even exist?
What is the meaning of describing Jesus as a Roman product to keep power on people?
What is the meaning of linking all this with U.S. internal terrorism problems?
-If you are a practicing Christian, you’ll call this movie heresy.
-If you believe in Jesus and God, this movie will cause you desolation (at least for a while).
-If you’re atheist, you’ll be happy to see such a “scientific” proof against those idiot believers, probably the same idiots believing in Osama power.
So, the final result of “Zeitgeist” is anyway negative. Who produced this movie?
Who mixed the 9/11, Jesus and political power? Who is doing this, forgot that the idea of God survives without any political power kept in the name of Him.
Nice way of patch working, Zeitgeist producers: mixing a positive story like the one of Jesus with U.S.A. terrorism problems. Denying the figure of Jesus having the accepted base that religion is misused by Bush government (the one who speaks with God). The director of the movie, Peter Joseph, said: “Dieser Film ist für Menschen, die den Mut haben kritisch die anerzogenen Traditionen, kulturellen und wirtschaftlichen Hintergründe unserer Geschichte zu hinterfragen.“ In other words, this movie is for intelligent and modern people. What an incredible unorganized piece of propaganda is this movie. Other documentary movies on the 9/11 didn’t need to mystify Jesus to explain that U.S.A. has some serious internal political problems.
Discuss Biology
January 10, 2008 at 5:31 am
Your attempt to debunk the movie is clearly driven by your own personal disgust of the movie. It is a well organized and substantiated movie. The only part that I find unsubstantiated is the testimony of the regarding the implantation of RFID chips into people. Other than that, the movie is well rounded. At no point did the movie mystify Jesus. All the movie did is simply put forth information that MAY enable people to question his existence, but never actually encouraged it. All you did is jumped to a conclusion.
January 10, 2008 at 10:57 am
I found no reasons to make a single movie with two parts that are badly linked: “Jesus Myth” and 9/11. And, yes, after I watch a movie that is a little bit more meaningful than Spiderman I usually make conclusions, otherwise why should I see it? In the movie many statements are made: by chance they drive to conclusions
January 11, 2008 at 8:30 am
The common thread that ties the three parts of this film together is the act of belief without evidence. What Peter Joseph seems to be striving for is to associate what seem to be disparate areas by addressing this irrational human tendency. However, I won’t act as an apologist for him. The film is not perfect. Where he does brilliantly succeed is in providing the viewer the opportunity and the ammunition to doubt the substance of our beliefs, modern and ancient.
January 11, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Thanks Sean. I like your equilibrate reply to my “jumped conclusions”. Anyway, I don’t find Peter Joseph used correctly the link “belief without evidence” . Humans always try to explain reality around them. What you know make you feeling safe. When scientific evidences cannot explain the unknown, here comes religion. It’s good. But this reaction is not comparable to induced belief promoted by Bush governemnt. Believing in God is a need for many of us. Believing in Bush is induced masochism.
January 12, 2008 at 3:08 am
I think that link between religion and war against terrorism is justicing all violant acts (There’s lots of examples in history of human kind so I’m not going to write more about that). First part just shows (my opinion) that the story behind our christian moral base might be just a story. I don’t mean that believing in somethin is wrong, but shouldn’t we believe in our selves? “In God we trust”? Shouldn’t we trust common people around us and possibilityes of our own acts as a community and see what is happening all around the world? Our lives aren’t any more in our own hands and we need to do something before it’s too late. If there is God, why he/she isn’t helping us? alltought, 2000 years ago we were choir boys if it’s compared to this day.
I’m sorry, it might be that my idea won’t open easily because of my english skills
-Ville / Finland
January 12, 2008 at 12:15 pm
You perfectly got the point, Ville. Jesus story could be a myth, nothing else. But what’s wrong in Jesus message? Would we really feel and act better without Jesus in our minds? I don’t think so. “In God we trust” is only a slogan used by a country. The Catholic Church until now did often worst than atheists agaist the human society. But :
ONE thing is believeing in Jesus and following his good messages. ONE OTHER thing is using Jesus message to control masses. Jesus in not guilty for the bad behaviours of Mr. Bush or of The Roman Catholic Church.
Again: the figure of Jesus and his messages are not violent acts against humans. The way humans use Jesus messages are often violent.
Why should we get rid of believing in Jesus for a mistake of us? The idea of Jesus as ” a super best friend” shown in South Park is quite primitive, but maybe useful.
Many people act honestly in this society without the need of believing in Jesus. Many other need Jesus to lead them. Is there something wrong in it?
And about “God not helping us”. Muslims share the idea everything is decided. Fate is decided by God wathever they choose. In their own point of view, God always take care of them. For Christians, God left us free to choose what we want to do. Of course some rules were given, but are those rules so unacceptable for a person living in society? I don’t think so. Isn’t leaving us free to choose what we want another way to help us in our development? I do think so. So, which kind of “help from God” are you missing?
So, to conclude: a good ZeitGeist movie would have shown the horror of the Church in the past, a Church who used Jesus and God to rule human beings. A good
Zeitgeist would have shown the bloody and at the same time religious colonization of other “primitive” countries, followed by Mr Bush speaking with God to justify his errors. But this was not the case. Peter Joseph preferred to show Jesus is probably a myth. He must have some personal problems with JC.
January 13, 2008 at 9:27 am
This movie “projects” what the director wants. It is his idea, just like any other director. He feels he must get this point of view out to the world. It is a great documentary in that it makes a person think. It is also great entertainment. To verify all the facts and cross matching he does throughout the film would take way to much time, so therefore, must be considered to be only one side of a story. I for one, find the middle ground to be the best. Use the information he has given and watch to see if the things that are predicted/hinted at, come to pass (a common currancy like the Euro, implanted chip, and Venezuela).
One idea I would tend not to agree with is that someone cut or planted charges in the world trade centre to bring them down. The photo they showed of the metal column cut on the angle in the debris field, was more than likely cut after the fact, to make the site safer for workers. Pretty difficult for someone to get into the building and plant charges without being seen by someone! The discovery channel did an excellent documentary on the collapse of the World Trade Centre buildings, and explains most of what people saw and experienced (pancaking of floors = sounds like explosions).
I for one believe in the “knowledge is power” theory and this film has added to my knowledge. I will keep my eyes open for the events to unflold.
DK
January 14, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Nothing to say against the documentary part of the movie.
January 17, 2008 at 7:21 pm
wow! what a movie… well it is pretty long, so i skipped the 1st part and can say nothing about that in detail.
the other 2 parts - especially the 2nd about 9/11 - well if such major impacts on a global scale happen, of course there are always major conspiracy theories accompanying it (as mentioned with the World Wars, the death of JFK etc), but: if there is just the slightest bit of truth in what is stated in the movie, i am - well not shocked anymore since there’s so much perverted things going on around the world (at least what you see and hear or made believe to see or hear by the media, hard to judge the truth anyway), so “shocked” would probably be the wrong word - but sincerely scared to death in some way. remember orwell?
where will this all lead to? what is a life worth when you sacrifice thousands of innocent people for the sake of money, power or whatever golden carf a society declares for itself? what is my life worth? whereto should i strive in my life? why should i ever pay taxes, when other people play with millions of lives to tower up blood money and are not even held responsible? why the f..k don’t people stand up against it? what else has to happen on this planet for people to wake up? how much worse can it get anyway? why are we destroying everything our existence is built upon (including climate change and all related destructions of water, air, soil etc)? why is mankind killing itself, even when we know what is going to happen and when? why?
i cannot think of any reason that would justify any of all the perverted things going on but absolute madness, arrogance, ignorance and whatever brainsickness - you name it.
and this brings me to the jesus thing: well the christians say he died for our sins. well wonderful, is this the excuse then? that easy? did he die for our sins before and up to the time of his “death” or for all sins to come till man has wiped out itself? if jesus stood/stands for all the good virtues in the world and if he has the might that is told us he has - why in the world doesn’t he stop people that have power from going that mad? why do those even get this amount of power? what’s wrong in the system? why does he leave us alone and watch us kill ourselves? what is the intention behind that and how long do we have to “learn” until someone/something could save us? are we “saveable” anyway?
at least why are people that are definitely mindsick in a massive and global sense, that affects anything outside their own belongings - why are those people not even held responsible or punished with the same amount of pain, tears or deaths that they bring over innocent lifeforms? is this justice? is even the practiced justice just?
i would like to hear the honest answer to that questions from the church. i am not against jesus and not against the church or any kind of religious belief. i have no prejudice against any religion, race, skin color or whatever… but it just doesn’t make sense that way.
anyway - whatever amount of truth the movie contains, i think we do need those to wake up the sleeping once in a while. and it seems there’s way too many sleeping. and these days it’s not done with a shocking ad a la benetton or so. we are fed up with and manipulated by so much shock, hatred, injustice and whatever unbelievable things in live already - so it takes another shock at least to get any attention of anyone anyhow. but it doesn’t last. the attention time is too short. people tend to forget - especially as long as they are not involved personally. but most of the time this is too late to wake up. or make a revolution. LET’S MAKE A REVOLUTION! the thing is: you have to have the masses. it’s hard to accomplish big moves on your own. and indolent masses are hard to move. we need someone to move those masses. people have to change their way of thinking, well or put a better way: if they think in the right way, they have to act like they think. make a revolution, stand up for a better world, stand up against the perversion in the world, share your thoughts, spread the word, move those sleepers… this is worth fighting for isn’t it? maybe not for us anymore, but did you think about your children and grand children, could you have a peace of conscience leaving them the planet in such a state? what will you tell them?
we have lost most of our instincts. we have lost much of our wisdom and personality as the (self-declared) crown of the evolution. how do we know. isn’t it arrogant to even think so?
and we are loosing more and more of a “humanity”, maybe till there is nothing more to loose?
the native americans thought in a seven generations period. for everything you do now, will affect the next seven generations. if we go on like we do, there probably won’t be another seven generations.
“Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was
loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our
Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.” - Ancient Indian Proverb
“When we Indians kill meat, we eat it all up. When we dig roots, we make
little holes. When we build houses, we make little holes. When we burn grass
for grasshoppers, we don’t ruin things. We shake down acorns and pine nuts.
We don’t chop down the trees. We only use dead wood. But the white people
plow up the ground, pull down the trees, kill everything. … the White
people pay no attention. …How can the spirit of the earth like the White
man? … everywhere the White man has touched it, it is sore.”
Wintu Woman, 19th Century
“Once I was in Victoria, and I saw a very large house. They told me it was a
bank and that the white men place their money there to be taken care of, and
that by and by they got it back with interest. “We are Indians and we have
no such bank; but when we have plenty of money or blankets, we give them
away to other chiefs and people, and by and by they return them with
interest, and our hearts feel good. Our way of giving is our bank.”
Chief Maquinna, Nootka
“The law is that all life is equal in the Great Creation, and we, the
Human Beings, are charged with the responsibility, each in our
generation, to work for the continuation of life.”
–Traditional Circle of Elders
How can we trust you? When Jesus Christ came on earth, you killed him and nailed him to a cross.
->>–> TECUMSEH 1810 <–<<-
January 17, 2008 at 11:12 pm
roberto..it is you? is it the roberto that i know?
January 18, 2008 at 10:43 am
is it me? well i am not sure… if you tell me who the roberto that you know is, i can probably tell you if i am it or not
January 18, 2008 at 11:21 am
@Roberto about the 1,2,3 paragraph: yes, I think a large part of the mankind is still to ignorant to react organized against such unfair situations.
@Roberto about 4th paragraph: I never had this idea of Jesus directing our lives. He gave an example: you’re free to follow or not. How do you “dare” to say Jesus what’s good and what’s bad? Can you really be objective about any situation? I don’t think so. The church itself uses power on this world. So the church cannot answer you. Let’s make a clear line between Jesus and Church: they’re two different things.
About revolution you replied yourself: until everyone is not personally involved, revolutions do not take place. Watch at Italy: the situation went really too far, but until you’ve to eat and football, no revolution is going on. It is a natural reaction, you cannot pretend people going to die for ideals. It never happened.
Native Americans could think like this because they still had a direct contact with nature. We don’t have it anymore so we don’t care about it too much.
But, let me finish cynically, for native Americans it was also easier to respect nature, as they didn’t pretend to use so much of it. Do you want to live back like native Americans?
Not me.
I didn’t want to be just against you. I think the system we built up works as bad as you described, but I don’t see any way to change it.
January 22, 2008 at 11:53 pm
please give me some hope here for you christians.
think for yourself people.
stop regurgitating the things the government has fed you.
January 24, 2008 at 12:36 am
Which hope do you expect from “Christians”? Which group do you “belong”? If christians have to think by themselves, is it not a good starting point to vomit what the government used to fed them?
Don’t you think your comment miss “some” logic?
Please be more clear.
January 24, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Lorenzo Says: @Roberto about 4th paragraph: I never had this idea of Jesus directing our lives. He gave an example: you’re free to follow or not. How do you “dare” to say Jesus what’s good and what’s bad?
— i am not telling him, he sure can judge for himself as he should be watching us, right? but how could anyone ever doubt that, when thousands of INNOCENT people are dying, starving, getting mistreated etc., when we consciously wreck the planet and all things upon it, can be anything other than “bad”?
Lorenzo Says: Let’s make a clear line between Jesus and Church: they’re two different things.
— why? isn’t the whole institution known as “church” built upon the belief in jesus? - or whatever he might be called in other religions (allah, the great spirit etc.)? whom are you praying to in a church? who is pictured, talked to and quoted in a church? whom do we celebrate and praise in a church? whose words and actions does the pope as head of the christian church preach? how can you deny the interweaving between those two?
Lorenzo Says: …you cannot pretend people going to die for ideals. It never happened.
— you are definitely wrong on this one: people dying for ideals did happen and does happen every day: just think about all the bloody religious conflicts all over the world, where people die for their ideals tought by their “religion”. they even blow themselves up to become a martyr for instance. if an american soldier falls, it is seen as he died for his country and the ideals it (officially) stands for: freedom and safety for instance. could you deny that?
Lorenzo Says: But, let me finish cynically, for native Americans it was also easier to respect nature, as they didn’t pretend to use so much of it.
— wrong. it is a mind thing. it’s the way of thinking. they were much more dependent on nature than we are. they didn’t have anything else. it was all they had to give them all the supplies they needed for their whole life! there was no “industry”. they just “used” it with respect and foresight. they only took what they needed and always left something for regeneration. they didn’t swipe everything from the planet just for the sake of avidity for money, regardless if it is needed or reasonable. they didn’t pay subsidies to artificially keep up prices and built up piles of food to be destroyed then because not needed or wasted. and most important: they used everything! they didn’t just chop the filet and threw away the rest. and their “waste” was natural, which reintegrated in the regeneration process by 100%. it was a circuit. a sort of perpetuum mobile concerning the balance between nature and mankind. and it worked for many hundred years. they didn’t overfish the seas and then cry about having no more as an example. we do! if we behaved like them we would have enough fish! we always take and take and don’t give back.
Lorenzo Says: Do you want to live back like native Americans?
— it’s not about the life - it’s the way of thinking we should “relearn”. the respect, the honesty, the love and the passion for us and our world and everything that lives in it. we think we are the top of the evolution. maybe we are - physically or in terms of time. we sure are not concerning the way of thinking and behaving. and time does not stop here. it does change…
Lorenzo Says: I didn’t want to be just against you. I think the system we built up works as bad as you described, but I don’t see any way to change it.
— well that is the problem: if nobody starts the revolution there will be none. i admit it is not easy - actually it is very very hard and difficult. but everyone can make a change in his own abilities for instance (conserve water, save power, look from whom you buy what, donate to associations that fight for preserving nature for instance, ask people about things to make them aware that you think about it, sign petitions…), there are numerous way if you look for them. hey - even the discussion in your blog right now is a beginning - when other people read it and think about it. and this is the follow-up key then: talk about it, reach the masses, find others that share your thoughts. the people are the power! they just have to use it!
February 12, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Hi Roberto here is my late answer:
- what we consider “bad” could not be considered “bad” if you use different points of view. What I wrote is not what i think. But, with a smaller point of view, what is bad for some could be good for others.
- the church is made upon Jesus, but Jesus is not made upon the church. The church is a human invention to control masses
- this is what propaganda tells you. those people do not die for ideals. they die because they didn’t find a proper job to survive and help their families.
- about native Americans, what I meant is that it’s easy to respect nature when your level of development is so low. We’re for sure more developed then them, as we can adapt more easily to different natural situations. But of course I agree that at the moment we abuse the environment instead of using it
- i don’t think you can change the way of thinking of billions people. I would like it happens, but as long as you don’t have starvation and main catastrophes, nothing will change. And I don’t want starvation an main catastrophes
- i think many people do something in their own small world. we do it too. but i don’t think big changes come from the bottom.
Anyway, I write this blog because I hope some changes COULD come from the bottom.
February 23, 2008 at 3:01 am
ok i only have one question and im confused as it is never asked. Its about the supossed ”9/11” attacks they were orchestrated by the Government and so on…. what i dont understand is were all those people on the planes gone if there weren’t any aeroplanes at the attack on the pentagon and the one that supposedly the passengers tried to recapture like the movie. Again were are all the people that were on the planes what happened to them? Does anybody have a clue or any theories?
February 23, 2008 at 9:54 am
b
February 23, 2008 at 9:55 am
everybody just shut the fuckup!!
February 24, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Hi kotsios I have no idea where to find the data you ask for. Many possible questions are probably already out the in the net…but how true they’re, nobody knows.
March 11, 2008 at 7:50 pm
This review strikes me as unintelligent and very confused. And as Gabriel stated, “Your attempt to debunk the movie is clearly driven by your own personal disgust of the movie.”
The correlation and relevancy of the Jesus myth to 9/11 is explicitly stated by the narrator at the conclusion of part one: “The religious myth serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish.”
i.e. your willingness to believe an obvious historical forgery and plaigirization lends itself to believing a more recent conspiracy.
How did you miss that?
March 11, 2008 at 10:06 pm
To define unintelligent a review is a behavior clearly driven by your personal disgust of my own ideas and your scarce attention in reading this post. I don’t find any logic in the conclusion of part one: repeating it doesn’t make it better.
That’s why I wrote this post (surprise!). Maybe you should read again it. Did you miss the point? I explain you, then.
Quoting the movie again doesn’t make your/Peter Jospeh “concept” stronger. Don’t you see how hilarious is the sentence you quote and defend?
“Jesus myth is the psychological soil upon which other myths fluorish.”
Jesus and 9/11 are two completely different myths, as the first is invented to give us a positive example, the second one is just created to cover the bloody hands of the miserable Bush government. You cannot put together two things just because you or Peter describe them as similar and say that the first causes the second. Quick example: you cannot say Enrico Fermi is a bad man because somebody used his studies to make the atomic bomb. US government has to be blamed, not Fermi. Shit and chocolate have the same colour, I agree, but oddly I eat only chocolate
I am not a poor idiot willing to believe an obvious historical forgery (as you suppose, free man): I appreciate the message of Jesus and I follow it. Can you imagine people following Jesus for pleasure, because he is a symbolic good man, or do you think are all poor ignorants?
Let’s go on analyzing what I wrote: “the idea of God survives without any political power kept in the name of Him”.
What I meant is that Jesus is a need abstracted from the miserable plans of “myth creators”. Peter Joseph is arrogant when describes Jesus just as a myth used to keep power on the mankind. Nobody has power on me because I believe in Jesus myth. Jesus is a really good positive example to follow, if you believe or not in souls, life after death and so on. I tell you more: you’re completely free to follow him or not. There’s no willingness in “believing a historical forgery”, as you again arrogantly write. Jesus myth is not a forgery/plaigirization: it doesn’t oblige me to do anything else than to follow “good rules”. If your moral education is good enough without Jesus myth: hey, good for you, you’re a strong man. If you need an example to follow: hey, Jesus is there - stay on giant shoulders, as people used to say. Jesus is a giant.
But you must be one of those persons that see in belief only slavery and pain. Who is the unintelligent here? Who is the slave? Not me.
To summarize, Jesus myth result is positive, because it is a positive example. And, read it carefully, I am speaking about Jesus. If you want to criticize the Church, be free to do it: I don’t care about the Church, as you can easily find reading around in my blog. The Church (and not Jesus) uses religion as a myth to control people. But, as I replied before to another comment, this is not Jesus fault.
Now, tell me, what has the message coming from Jesus in common with conspiracies? Because, hay, I agree many ancient belief (Egypt?) could be described as conspiracy organized by small group of people to keep power on the stupid folk. And Rome Church does the same nowadays. But which damned conspiracy do you find in Jesus message? How can you describe it as a conspiracy? No way, the conspiracy is created by people in need of power, like the Vatican. The conspiracy is the way Bush administrator organized the last 8 years on this Planet. But Peter Joseph didn’t say anything about the Church, he went directly against Jesus.
If Peter didn’t use the figure of Jesus, this movie would have been a complete flop, because in it there would be nothing new: it wouldn’t have been the first movie against the Church or about 9/11. Transforming Jesus in *the* conspiracy (instead of saying how Jesus is used by religious people to conspire against other people) has been the smart move of Peter Joseph for people (like you?), that like to attack belief of other people. Of people (like you?), that feel superior because they don’t need anything leading their life. Of people probably too proud to accept suggestions from outside.
Relax man, you’re free to believe in Jesus myth or not, nobody forces you. Nobody forces people to believe in Jesus. It happens, of course it happens. Sadly, Jesus is used by ignorant people on ignorant people to keep power. This has nothing to do with Jesus myth: it is about how the myth is used.
So, do the same, and leave me free to believe too. Finally, to come back to your sentence, it’s not because I believe in Jesus that I can believe in the strategies of such a small and miserable man like GW Bush.
I don’t have to deny Jesus to deny Bush. Jesus myth is not a soil for other myths. I am free minded enough to understand the difference between a free choice and impositions from the high hierarchy. . But you?
March 12, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Clearly…the movie Zeitgesit gives scientific proof that the figure known as Jesus did not exist. I had already known this from ancestors who passed down their knowledge of political leaders using the myths from various religions…then putting them together and surrounding them with lies and deceit to control the people of this world. Living in reality is what i do. I do not discredit the people who still believe in a figure of God or Jesus, but we want to know, and live by, true knowledge…not lies, fables, or myths. The religious people in our world are brainwashed beyond capable reasoning. There is no way for them to completely alter their morals, understanding, and ways of life being that they were raised and brought up that way. But i think children of these people should be given the right to decide to learn, or follow a religion, without being forced into communion or church. You know that the Vatican keep a firm hold on a brainwashed nation when our own children are forced by their brainwashed parents into following a way of worship that is completely misinterpreted by our species.
watch-movies.net
the link above has the full movie american Zeitgeist in case anyone wants to watch the full knowledgeable story. The clip above is OK…but watching it from this standing…it seems to be a chosen part from the full truth depicted in the documentary.
March 12, 2008 at 11:24 pm
watch-movies.net
use this link and search the two documentaries:
Earthlings
and
American Zeitgeist
Both are very informative documentaries that will open your minds…and alter the way you percieve our world!!!!
March 13, 2008 at 7:09 pm
1) You cannot give scientific proof of something which cannot be proven with the scientific method.
2) Your “true knowledge” is not enough for many many human beings, who enjoy ALSO the spiritual side of their life
3) Having communion or having been in Church made me know the world of the church that now I refuse. You cannot criticize what you don’t know. You are not born with the true knowledge in your pocket. Knowledge comes from experience of the opposites. If you experience only one side, you don’t have any knowledge but only suppositions (like many church/religious men)
4) I already watched Earthlings quite a long time ago and I found it quite groundless propaganda, as I wrote already here
.
5) I perceive our world in a complete different way from yours, it seems. No problem. however, I believe my perception is far closer than yours to what you call “true knowledge”, because curiosity pushes me to see things from different points of view, without excluding any of them.
6) I suppose you understood the difference I make between the positive figure of Jesus and the way Church uses it.
7) Jesus myth gives acceptable moral rules for social life and hope. 9/11 myth gives war and pain and terror.. it’s dirty to put them together in a movie saying that the second myth is stronger thanks to the first one.
March 15, 2008 at 1:22 pm
zeitgeist rulezzzzzzzz
March 20, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Listen, you’re just taking it too personally. So I’ll put it in other words for you because you’re just not getting it.
The societies of a huge portion of the world are based around the myth that somebody named jesus existed. Traditions have been established, the idea has been ingrained into us; we use the name jesus casually and reflexively, we take for granted the absurdity that there are churches, EVERY where.
The point is that the myth is a major part of a lot of people’s lives. No one is saying that the two myths are similar in nature or consequence. What I’M saying, at least, and so is the documentary, is that the belief in myths and taking them as fact is irresponsible.
People think jesus existed. Those people are wrong. That’s the long and short of Peter Joseph’s message about jesus.
Another quote from the movie is that this is not about hurt feelings, but we want to be academic about things. The second myth is stronger, thanks to the first one. Why is that dirty? That doesn’t mean they are the same myth or similar in ANY way.
March 20, 2008 at 6:27 pm
And how do you presume to be in a position to comment on another work (Earthlings) by another filmmaker after only seeing 10 minutes of it? Because of the Nazi connection? You’re not very big on global parallel are you. Works like Earthlings and Zeitgeist are obviously well above you.
Groundless propaganda? You’re just a Euro version of Bill O’Reilly.
You better get your house in order and start paying attention, because the dismissive and the ignorant such as yourself are going extinct.
March 20, 2008 at 8:19 pm
If you eat meat or purchase animal products, you do not deserve to be shielded from this footage.
March 24, 2008 at 6:09 am
I do know one thing, God is not the author of confusion. Some people on this blog should check themselves, as to why they are so vehemently resistance to these ideas, for they are ideas, that deserve some consideration. I don’t think anyone whose seen this movie can say anything, but it provides pretty firm ground upon which we can start our questioning.
Truth has that effect on people, it shakes you to your core (phenomenologically speaking), and brings out violent opposition (whether verbally, or otherwise). This opposition is to be expected. When you have challenged the very core of someone’s belief system, it is equivalent to challenging one’s very existence. And if we are being lied to, then how are we falling for these same historical lies, decade after decade, after century after century? It is like, one psychiatrist said, “most of time we supply them with the lie…”
I just finished showing this movie to my class. And i told them, like some have expressed on here, go out and find your own truth. I encouraged my students to question everything, even this film. We have to start by allowing ourselves to be questioned/even as we question everything. We cannot–in any way–be like these people in power, past and present educators, who fear being challenged. And I think that this movie is performative as much as it is informative. The very text of this film itself, challenges us to the extent that we are even questioning the historical documentation that the director is providing us. It is interesting that he shows the clip of Lou Dobbs, and still we doubt that this treaty-signing has already taken place. It is not up for debate, they have already signed it.
Margaret Thatcher was pulled down out of power, after she was hesitant to fall in line on the conversion to euro. Go research the Bilderberg Group. Who are these people? And why is it, that some of the figures in this movie, are active members of this group.
On Religion: For me, this movie, more than anything, prove the existence of God. I have gotten away from religious institutions, but i still know that there is a God out there, and this God is almighty. Think about it, the next age is Aquarius–according to astrological bases provided in history. And God will exact its justice upon those that destroyed the earth. So if Aquarius is the age, then what will happen when the polar ice caps melt? Is that not some natural justice in the making there? I know that there are ways to refute my claims, and that is cool. I am not trying to advance any claims to anybody. Even the Egyptians, as they would make themselves deities, those civilizations fell, as soon as a civilization thinks that it is above God, that civilization falls, these places for world power will not succeed because God’s justice, along with our consciousness, will be enough to bring about some change, I hope.
I just hope that we can stop and start getting mad, at least questioning. Maria Stewart–an ex-slave writing after David walker was murdered wrote that “highest form of obedience to God is political protest.” It is not for nothing, that if we follow the life of Jesus, whether false or not, it was a life of protesting against the establishment. And could we also look at Zeitgeist as also having a more subtle message: if the blueprint for the seizure of power was laid out in our ancient texts, then also can our blueprint for taken back our sovereignty also be contained in those same ancient texts? Cause remember we gotten keep questioning for in that inquiry, possibilities become made aware to us.
I apologize for my errors, i wish everybody on here, real love and harmonious yet ground-shaking vibes.
March 24, 2008 at 6:38 am
Also, i included a passage from this cat, i think offers some dense, nevertheless valid, renderings that might help us understand the connect between all three parts of the film: i thought it was quite simple: there has never been a separation of Churh-Sate. Look at the role of the Vatican in the sphere of politics…9/11–the farce that it is–ws immediately turned into a war on evil or terror. Just peep the moral economy that emerged after and int he midst of 9/11.
Terry Eagleton writes:
“And here we can observe a most interesting contradiction. The more this Western-based market culture penetrates the farthest crevices of the world, as the obedient shadow of the West’s military and political hegemony, the more the West needs to claim some spiritual legitimation for this overwhelmingly ambitious global operation. The more, in other words, it needs to underwrite its own universal identity, which is traditionally what culture did for it. Indeed high culture is an enormously convenient way of rendering your culture portable, allowing you, so to speak, to tuck it in your back pocket wherever you go. But the more market culture proliferates, the more it undermines this traditional spiritual authority within the West itself. And the less possible it then is for the West to legitimate itself, at just the self-universalising moment when it most needs to. Within the West itself, Culture as universal civility is progressively eroded by culture as a hard-nosed, sceptical, self-consciously provisional, streetwise relativism.”
“And this, for the rulers of the West, is hardly good news, not least when they find themselves eyeball to eyeball with antagonists like Islam who seem far more spiritually self-assured. Western philosophy, in the ambit of the vastly influential Richard Rorty, is now resorting to neo-pragmatist legitimations of itself. Dropping bombs on Iraqi children is just part of its contingent way of life; and though the West can no longer lend such pragmatic customs the kind of buoyant metaphysical foundations which it could in the earlier, religious phase of capitalism, this need not matter too much. It need not matter because if no way of life can any longer be metaphysically foundational, you are no more able to justify your critique of the West than the West is able to justify itself. In a rather desperate strategy, then, neo-pragmatism, postmodernism, post-structuralism and the like pull the carpet out from under their opponent in the ironic knowledge that they are also yanking it out from beneath themselves.”
Be eazy
March 24, 2008 at 8:23 pm
@willsfarm
I am happy to be different from people considering Earthlings and Zeitgesit masterpieces. I wouldn’t speak about being inferior or superior, but you started and now you get what you deserve.
Your aggressive posts show how weak are your ideas and how victim of propaganda you’re. You menace of extinction “people like me” (do you understand what you wrote? you hope people thinking different from you will die! How liberal you’re …), not being at all different from Nazis menacing Jews of extinction.
You cry for animals badly assassinated but not for human beings being deserved the same treatment.
I suppose you’re quite young and you can see things only black or white. If you’re not young, than you’re a dangerous person, because you cannot accept people thinking different from you.
Are you the truth?
March 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm
@willsfarm
And again: I eat meat because I am not a sheep, I am omnivore. If you’re not omnivore, THIS IS YOUR CHOICE. If you want to impose your choice to the human kind, you’re not different from what you criticize.
THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS:
Jesus didn’t menace anybody of extinction.
YOU DID.
March 24, 2008 at 8:31 pm
@ Kelvin Monroe
“there has never been a separation of Church-State”
Fully agree with that, as I’ve already written.
March 24, 2008 at 8:51 pm
@willsfarm
WTF is Bill O’Reilly, by the way? I had to Google him to know something about him.
You highly offended me: I am not conservative (as you can EASILY understand reading this blog), I do not broadcast on FOX channel (one of the pests of U.S.A.) and especially I do not make money with my ideas.
March 25, 2008 at 9:24 pm
“You cry for animals badly assassinated but not for human beings being deserved the same treatment.”
I don’t understand what you’re getting at, could you please elaborate.
————————————————————————-
I don’t know if it’s the language barrier or what, but your answers lack any sort of opinion, any sort of logic and any sort of purpose.
I never imposed my choice on others, I’m not even a vegetarian.
I never called for your extinction, I pointed out that inconsiderate, smarmy and dismissive spectators like yourself are giving way to the critical, the disenchanted and the fed-up, like myself.
You attack works you know nothing about. You gawk at inconvenient yet relevant parallels, but worst of all, you miss the point - again, and again, and again.
March 26, 2008 at 10:01 pm
dieser film oefnete mir die augen.
nun sehe ich was ich nich aendern kann.
March 26, 2008 at 10:57 pm
to alll using it, please stop using the phrase “scientific proof.” this movie had nothing to do with science debunking religion. science and religion are not polar opposites or enemies.
March 28, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Really silly. I feel the point of the movie is closer to what Sean is trying to say. Yes his view is biased but if you think about it everybody has a biased view point. You have an ego right? So even if you try really hard to see it from another viewpoint you are still influenced by every experience YOU have had. Than that experience influenced the other one and so on. Even truth as we know it is not complete truth it is recorded truth that gets manipulated by man.(usually the winner of a war or two) The point im trying to make is who cares if I don’t believe in God as you see him or Jesus as you think he exsisted. Doesn’t YOUR faith say not to judge a man, treat him as you would be treated. And while doing these basic things along the way you find out that this person which does not have the same regid beliefs system but at their core has the same non-judgemental, accepting, understanding way WHAT DOES IT MATTER. Everyone is to anal about what the believe to just treat another human being with true and utter kindness which everyone deserives. Love all. We are one Race.
March 30, 2008 at 5:16 pm
There IS nothing to believe. There ARE no belief systems. There IS no faith. Believe in yourself, you already know what’s right. Secular religion is tearing the world apart - leave it behind! It’s part of history!
April 4, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Interesting that noone reacts to the possibility of himself being manipulated on daily bases by the US media as well as during the process of education. No reaction whatsoever. No anger, no rage, no wish for a change.
This can only confirm that the goal of obtaining full control over every one human being is..well.. almost achieved.
April 4, 2008 at 5:12 pm
This movie is NOT about Christianity. The first part is only used to show where the “guys behind the curtain” draw inspiration for staging events in order to establish further control of the world. In the sense that it is easy to figure out from that what is the best aproach for manipulating large numbers of people.
I think that one should keep one’s mind open. If I am a Christian and do not agree with the first part of the movie, it does not mean that I will not watch critically the second two parts. I think that the second two parts do make a lot of sense. It is possible that some things are not doccumented, but I think that the point of the movie is to incite some logical thinking: why would US get involved in so many wars OUTSIDE of its own teritory? Well, it cannot all be for the humanitarian cause. Cerainly germans, Japanese and Vietnamese would not want US in the war, so they’d probably want to do their best NOT to provoke. Who would ingage in a war on the other side of the world and invest so much wothout any gain? So if you add 2 and 2 you get 4 and the movie does make a lot of sense.
Nothing is black and white. Some things in the movie seem extreme, some not. But one should not, based on one disagreement with something said in the movie, discard all the rest.
The key part of the movie is I believe part 3.
And the key words are: large scale manipulation and control.
April 10, 2008 at 6:23 am
…….a puppet show of this caliber only proves that its oppisition is controlled as well!
April 14, 2008 at 10:03 pm
What is the meaning of the “movie” zeitgeist (click on the image above and watch it)?
What is the meaning of showing the Bible as a big patchwork of ancient believes?
What is the meaning of showing Jesus as a good astronomer who probably didn’t even exist?
What is the meaning of describing Jesus as a Roman product to keep power on people?
What is the meaning of linking all this with U.S. internal terrorism problems?
Answer:
To Tell The Truth
April 22, 2008 at 6:25 pm
[...] question if plants suffer or not when eaten. What follows should be somehow interesting for the vegetarian people crowding this blog. Interestingly, today we were shown how plants can tell the difference between a wind slap and a [...]
May 8, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Hi loranablog,
This is a interest blog! Keep up sharing questions and information! I have a small question for you. What will hapen at the end if I don’t believe in Jesus?
Greetings, Sander from Holland
May 8, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Who knows? Not me. That’s the point of my post. Why deny Jesus, when his message brings mainly good feelings? Who cares about what the mostly corrupted Church says.
Why making jokes on believers, showing them “scientifically” that Jesus was nothing more than a magician (if not even invented?). If they feel Jesus as a friend, as a good leader to accept also bad moments, as a help in following rules that should make this society a better place to live, why should we make jokes about them?
It is so easy to make jokes on believers: this movie is really nothing new. This movie is a misuse of the scientific method.
By the way, if you’re so scared about your soul after death, do like Pascal.
In short, if God exists, then wagering for God results in infinite utility.
May 9, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Hi loranablog,
I think you’re avoiding my question: What will happened if I don’t believe in Jesus? Isn’t that information missing in the bible? I’m serieus and don’t want to make a fight.
Greetings Sander
May 9, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I mean: what says the bible about this?
May 9, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Sorry Sander I was miss-reacting, you’re right.
For what I can find in the New Testament (I consider the old quite a repetitive story of the Jews - I don’t really take it as Word of God):
————————————————————————————-
Matthew 5.19:
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7.21:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 3.16
16 ‘For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
———————————————————————————
So, if I believe in Jesus (God) and respect his rules I will have eternal life, otherwise not. This is what is written in the new Testament.
This is the point . Do you want do believe? All to gain. Do you refuse to believe? All to loose.
Do you try to weak the belief in other people - like this movie? You’re really mean! Our society is developed enough to have believers/non believers living together. Thanks, French Revolution!
So, if you don’t believe you will not have eternal life. This is what is written. Free to believe it or not.
Thanks for discussing properly.
May 19, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Thanks for your answer Lorana!
I already had an idea about your answer because I was an Christian too. From my birth till my 23 i was going to an evanglism church. Now i’m struggling to search the truth in love and myself and not the story who is told me so long. I’m raised up very well by my parents and didn’t have problems in my life……but was not satisfied. I still have many Christian friends because i love them and accept them as unique persons.
My point to you is: isn’t your faith based on fear to haven’t eternal life? That’s how i translate your answer on my question.
I hope we can forward our properly discussion too!
Kind regards, Sander
May 26, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Still anyone on the other side?
May 29, 2008 at 11:24 am
Uhmmmm, I hope you’re on an holiday?……..
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
Namaste!
Kind regards, Sander from Holland
P.S.:
OSAMA BIN LADEN DID IT? MY ASS!
BUSH, YOU SICK UGLY MOTHERFUCKER!
IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB!
HE AND THE GREAT INDUSTRIES ARE THE TERRORISTS!
MEDIA IS ALSO IN THERE HANDS SO INVESTIGATE 9/11 AGAIN AND INVESTIGATE THE TRUE AND IT WILL SET YOU FREE!
WHEN IS AMERICA REALLY WAKING UP?!?
May 29, 2008 at 11:25 am
Yes, that was me, forgot my name. Cheers!
May 29, 2008 at 12:01 pm
No, don’t look always on the negative side. People do not believe because of fear, or at least not all of them. And for sure not me.
But,you can agree with me that this life is too short to really get what’s going on. If somebody tells me: believe in me and you’ll have eternal life …well, why should I tell him: I don’t care? I would lie to myself. Of course I care! And if in change of this eternal life I’ve just to follow morally acceptable rules, it is really easy for me to believe.
I don’t know which kind of church you were in…but I don’t care about Church. I like what Jesus said, I like the person Jesus, I don’t need any church telling me what should I do with Jesus message.
All your “don’t” list sounds to me more constrictive than just believing “because I LIKE IT”. You cannot say to the others what they must like and what not just based on your experience.
People (many of them, not all) do not believe things just because they’re told to do it, they believe things they like. You like the decisions you took in your life, I like mine. As long as we don’t impose our decisions to others, our points of view are equally positive. As you wrote: I’ve christian friends: do they bother you? Of course not.
The church of course impose its point of view: that’s why I don’t agree with the church. The zeitgeist movie also wants to impose its point of view, pretending to show scientifically things that are not scientifically proven. That’s why it disturbed me.
Jesus doesn’t impose you anything: you’re free to believe in him or not. What’s wrong in it?
Bush imposed terror at a global level with the story of 9/11: he negatively influenced my life. He’s terribly wrong.
June 17, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Believe me Lorenzo: I don’t look on the negative side. Exactly opposing that! But what the mainmedia is telling us is: weapons of mass destruction, global terrorism, war on terror, if you don’t believe in Jesus, you’re going to hell…..fear, fear and fear. And the most of the people believe that! I don’t.
I was since my birth a evangelism church (pentecost community, i don’t know the exact translation) Jesus is there THE person, the son of God etc. They teach everything out of the bible.
Your explanation of: if somebody tells me: “believe in me and you’ll have eternal life….” I’m sorry man. I’ve heard that also for many years. And was thinking I was also really feeling his presence. Now I know: all I was feeling and believing was myself. Someday you will open your eyes really. Or not. But I don’t want to convince you. You have to search it for yourself.
Life is too short to really get what’s going on? Maybe! But you are smart enough to keep searching for truths, wisdom and understanding. I think our match is that we believe what we like. We’re free to do that.
Good luck and best wishes!
Kind regards,
Sander Huijser
Bush: just a playball of the Bilderberg Group.
June 17, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Yes, that was me, for the last time.
Kind regards, Sander
June 21, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Then, let’s solve the situation: media says what people believe, because people are IGNORANT. Only ignorants could and still believe there are weapons of mass destructions in Iraq. Only ignorants can follow all what the Church says.
Let’s fight ignorance, not media. Let’s fight the Church, not Jesus. This blog is made for this purpose, too.
They don’t teach out of the Bible, they USE the Bible to control you.
Anyway, there’s no need to go on for ever with this discussion. Probably the main difference is that you got a Christian education, and I didn’t. That’s why I can choose to have or not the presence of Jesus in my life, while in your case you feel completely overwhelmed by him. Because they obliged you to believe in him.
There’s no contrast in me in believing in Jesus and believing in myself: I am not a Muslim. Nothing is written, my fate is not in the hands of God. I choose my fate … and when I will not be able to choose anything ANYMORE because I will be dead, well, I like to believe somebody else will take my fate in his hands.
Let’s keep the only match we found for good: we’re free to believe, as long as nobody oblige us to believe.
But this was clear from the beginning
(And, no, this was not your last time..you have to read my reply, of course)
June 22, 2008 at 3:01 am
The film Zeitgeist is merely a fine contribution to the overall effort to expose what has been happening in this world all through time, which is the fundamental war between the ‘establishment’ (NWO) and free humanity. Embedded in the NWO are a set of competing powerful that are united by the underlying drive to enslave the people.
A reasonable effort was made to prove that 9/11 was a staged government event to justify the merky future that the NWO has for all of us. It would appear the the story of Jesus was given to us by the ancient church system to serve as the ultimate lie that ’softens’ us up for all major future lies. What really happened in relation to Jesus will always remain a mystery since common sense would dictate that the NWO will always keep the truth from us. Once we know the truth the NWO will lose its power
June 26, 2008 at 12:56 pm
As an expert in International Terrosim I have dedicated a good number of years in this matter. The movie discussed above can only be understood by those that are not wasting time in futility. Religion has plagued human kind since creation. Any kind of decision is upon approval of the Vatican. They are the ones behind the suffering and the dual morality of aggression. You just need to see the superiority of the popes hand-shake to understand at what levels we are dealing with. Instead of dealing with the facts, people in general do not like to be wrong and have a hard time accepting the truth because it is simply convenient. International Terrorism has always been rooted by government sponsorship some way or another. Is 9/11 any different? Well, the analysis is always limited by the level of knowledge the person has even though we all were born knowing the same thing: nothing. Religion, does it matter? You can still have moral values without being Christian. The movie couldn’t have been any better in all the respects.